Hey channel insiders, I'm your host Katie Bavoso and welcome back to channel insider partner POV. I'm excited to welcome back a POV veteran today. Terry Richardson, the CRO of the security first services and solutions provider Blue Mantis, joins me once again just after making several MSP acquisitions as the company doubles down in networking and communication services. We talk about the driving force behind these acquisitions and we take a more macro approach to M&A in uncertain times.
Welcome back, Terry. Thanks, Katie. I appreciate you having me again. So nice to see you. Great to see you, Terry. I think it's now a tradition that we can only speak on your annual anniversary with the company like on or around it because we did speak around this time last year as well when you celebrated one year with Blue Mantis and now you're at two. Does it feel like two? Um it depends on the perspective. It's gone by very quickly but I on the same point I feel like we've accomplished a lot.
So yeah. Um yeah, it's uh it's a lot's happened. So we'll get I'm sure we'll get into some of that. Oh absolutely. You know, you're you're not getting off that easy. I've definitely got a bunch of questions for you. And we'll start with this, Terry. I don't want to bury the lead here because you've had an exciting few months, an exciting first quarter at Blue Mantis. You acquired three MSPs in March alone, and that is right off of acquiring another one in December of 2024.
The latest ones though, Intelligence Partners, Brevin Systems, and Caulkins Networks. Congratulations on all the acquirings. I think that's so exciting. you two uh you you all I should say are keeping up the momentum in 2025. I I just have to first point out these are all based in Vermont. Are we only going for New England based MSPs these days? Is that the key or no? No, that's not the uh that's not the ultimate plan. That would the near-term the near-term part of the term strategy was just you know Jason expansion, but we've got our eyes on some other expansion ideas as well.
Oh, great. So, let's dig into that. So, let's start with these three most recent acquisitions. what drew you to these particular MSPs and what is kind of the benchmark that you saw them all hit to be able to bring them into the Blue Mantis umbrella? Yeah, so I'm happy to answer that question. Let me just kind of back it up just a little bit. Since we last talked, we did a recapapitalization of the firm in August of last year. And during that process, we laid out a five-year uh growth plan with the private equity firm uh recognize um that owns us.
And a big part of that growth, not exclusively, but a big part of it was going to be uh M&A. Some we had already in process before the recapitalization. And the three that you mentioned are example of some that were kind of inflight um before we we took that step and others are you know being evaluated um you know kind of real time as we as we look forward. But specifically um the three that uh that you just referenced um that we closed earlier this year uh they had some commonality. there was a really good cultural fit.
Um, and I I joked at the beginning, but um, geog geographic adjacency was important. So, as a a company headquartered in Portsouth with pretty strong representation in New England, um, and actually in Florida, there's some geographies that we intend to fill in. Um, so by acquiring these firms that had a customer base that was largely, not exclusively, but largely in uh northern New England and upstate New York, um, pretty easy to get to from an ability to service and support customers.
Um, so we decided uh the cultural fit was good, the geographic fit was good, the capabilities that they brought, and the customers um that they brought. So when you kind of combined all those factors, it it seemed like a a good acquisition to do and one that was not going to be overly time consuming to try to integrate into the into the company. I do want to talk about that integration more and you you hit on several points that I will absolutely touch on, Terry, but the integration right there.
Is there anything is there any sort of I guess I would call it like a secret sauce as far as integrating this many new MSPs into the fold? As I said, there's four since December. So, how do you do that so quickly getting them implemented, getting them up and running in the onboarding without any friction or how do you reduce that friction? Yeah, so I think we we made some decisions um you know since I've been here and even before I got here to really standardize on our tech stack that we use for all of our business uh inclusive of the managed service business.
So we have kind of a base set of offerings that are very extensible um to others and it it makes it easier when you have a a good solid you know system whether it's for for ticketing and call handling or other elements of of managed services. I think we've got the recipe down now. Um and the ability to take on customers um we have the flexibility to support their needs. It could be as simple as handling, you know, the enduser related call volumes all the way through managing their entire hybrid estate.
And we can do that with um onshore resources, nearshore resources or offshore resources. So we have the financial um and technical uh flexibility to really attract a broader swath of of end customers. In the case of the three that we're talking about for this call, there was a lot of commonality, a lot of Microsoft, a lot of networking, a lot of uh kind of common um things that we're already doing. So they it kind of made for a much more straightforward integration plan.
You mentioned networking and I know there is more of an investment that Blue Mantis is making on the networking and communication side. uh some of the companies that you acquired specialize in this area specifically and of course as we know the US telecommunications market alone is growing rapidly and blue mantis has been investing in the networking and carrier space capabilities. So in addition to tapping deeper into this market opportunity as we know it is an opportunity what other reasons are driving your investment into the networking and communication offerings and you're doing this in what's still a very distributed workforce so I'm curious how that plays into this strategy.
So it's it's definitely a little bit of a bifurcated strategy. Um because of our focus around cyber security um networking and cyber security really go hand in hand. So the demands we're getting from customers for network skills as part of their overall modernization efforts to improve their security posture. You know that's that's a core area of of our growth focus on the telecommunication side. Blue Mantis is not unique but different than many other um MSPs and solution providers where we do have a deep and rich expertise and a long track record of serving customers in those markets.
Sometimes it's allows us to help them modernize and sometimes it's similar to our co our cloud business where you know on the cloud side we talk about PHOps and helping customers control their cloud spend and that's been a big enabler for our rapid cloud growth. On the telecommunication side, we can do the same thing where we show customers how they can reduce their telecom expense, whether it's voice or data related, and those dollars now can be repurposed to fund other projects.
Um, and so there's a there's a method to our madness, if you will. Um, not only, you know, we want to serve all of the needs of the customers, and you're right, carrier and networking kind of go hand in hand. So, we're looking beyond just your traditional wired and wireless networking to, you know, everything and and it starts to get into into voice and other other technologies. But our starting premise is how can we help modernize and lower costs?
Now, considering that uh when you talk about modernizing and lowering costs, I'm thinking about the customers that come over through those acquisitions that we're talking about. What's the number one thing you want them to expect from Blue Mantis now that this is the brand and these are the faces that they're going to get to know? What should those customers expect from Blue Mantis when they know that they're being transitioned to you as an MSP? Is there something that you'd like for them to know right out the gate?
This is what you're getting. This is how we're improving you. Straight away, our focus, we we take when we do all of our acquisitions, we take a do no harm approach. What that means is we move the company that we're acquiring over intact. So we're not disrupting any, you know, customer or partner or other important relationships initially. Um, we don't go into these acquisitions with an eye towards finding the synergies or cost savings. So everybody that we've acquired so far, all the employees have stayed.
So there's a I think there's a comfort for customers that we're not creating change or disruption to what they've already been experiencing. So that's really been an important part of our our M&A strategy. And so if we build on that now we start to introduce the other services and capabilities that Blue Mantis offers that were probably beyond the more narrow scope of some of the companies we've been acquiring. So, it's an ability to serve customer those acquired customers in some new and different ways while protecting and maintaining the integral relationships that they had with the former, you know, personnel that they were dealing with.
Is it safe to say they can see you more as a one-stop shop for their needs and potentially kind of narrow down the amount of third parties that they're going to? Absolutely. Very definitely for SMB or mid-market clients. I think as you start to get into some of the larger enterprise um they may or may not be willing to entertain a one-stop shop approach. They oftentimes have a multi- vendor, multi-partner type of strategy, but certainly we are prepared to do um everything we can for our customers.
I know that you're also focusing on serving some more what I've heard are underserved markets in both New England and New York State. uh northern New York State, which we sometimes kind of absorb into New England, depending on who you talk to. Uh right. So, can you talk to me a little bit more about where those underserved markets are and what makes them underserved and how are you able to help in these latest acquisitions? Well, I think um you know, not too dissimilar from other parts of the country, sometimes people like to do business with those that are in their communities, right?
I think there's there's certainly elements that I've I've heard referenced and I know from experience in northern New England and upstate New York where they expect more local um resources, not somebody traveling in from from Boston or Hartford or wherever. Um so I think that's that's underserved. I think um if you look at the go to market through the lens of some of our key strategic partners often times they don't have personnel in some of the um a little bit more difficult to get to locations um and so partners like Mantis can really serve a purpose to help drive their offerings and solutions into into some of those markets.
You know our acquisitions uh allow us to kind of cut across verticals. Some of them have been, you know, uh, a little bit heavier on public sector. Some of them more heavy on, you know, financial services or retail or manufacturing. But the good news is we we can sell across industries and we can do it with a local touch where that's what's desired. Would you say there's any specific vertical or industry that you're seeing growing the most within your customer base right now?
And why do you think that is? It's a great question, Katie. There's not any one particular vertical that has shown growth. I think the regulated industries, financial services, um, healthcare continued to do really well. Um, largely because of the importance of you kind of all things related to cyber security, compliance, and risk management. Um so th those markets have um have been really uh strong growth opportunities for us. But you know we've we've seen a great run in in manufacturing um distribution, public sector and even some you know entertainment technology type of companies.
So it it kind of sort of runs the gamut. There's not any one that is particularly faster growing than the others. The good news is that it's virtually all been growing. That's very good news. I'll do a knock on my desk as well. Uh it it really begs the question for me though, Terry. Is Blue Mantis becoming or do you feel they've become a platform MSP style business? Why or why not? So platform is certainly a uh interesting uh word and discussion.
It's getting a lot of play in the industry as you know Katie. Uh I think about a platform if you look through the lens of just managed services, right? You know, we we we take an approach with our customers in all of our engagements where we like to start on the front end obviously understanding their strategy and business objectives, but we we we refer to as assess, modernize, and manage. So we can do just an assessment, we can do an assessment and modernization or we can do all three depending if the customer wants us to manage what we ultimately recommend and implement.
And I think from a platform standpoint, we're increasingly being asked by customers to manage their environment. And in some cases, the vendors that we work with may have well-formed MSP type of, you know, offerings. In other cases, we're one of the first to work with them on tweaking their offering to fit, you know, more of a traditional MSP profile. So, our intent is absolutely to continue to increment the different types of things that we can manage on behalf of our customers.
So if you if you use the platform definition to to be able to add new capabilities, manage service capabilities, whether it's on the traditional enduser or IT operations side or managed security services, you'll continue to see Blue Mantis roll out new offerings that uh customers can experience through a a managed relationship. So from that standpoint, I would say it's a decided focus on broadening the platform all using that underlying technology that I referenced earlier in the conversation.
And you're right about it being a conversation that's kind of taking over the industry and really being at the top of the space of of conversations that are happening here. And I'm still waiting for somebody to put their foot down and say this is how we define what a platform is and this is what it's going to be. Uh I certainly am not the one to do that. Uh, but I do look forward to that being something that we continue to talk about and I eventually think it's going to have a a Miriam Webster sort of definition to it.
Um, as we see across the space, we're having folks become much more, I would say, intentional in how they label, and I'm doing air quotes for those listening on on the podcast platform, how they label themselves as a business. you're seeing people become much more specific and saying we're an MSSP because we define it by X or we're a VAR because we define it by X or so on and so forth. So I do think 2025 is the year where we all get together and we say these are the definitions.
Please write them down somewhere. So I I look forward for that happening for platform as well. Um, that gets me thinking, Terry, just considering the conversation that we've been going through and considering that I'm sure there's there's potentially more acquisitions in the future for for Blue Mantis, whether that's in 2025, 2026 or beyond. But when you're considering how your uh eventually acquired uh partners, I should say, become part of that umbrella of Blue Mantis, what is something they can do to be ready for that to asssuming this is something that they are already vying towards that they're looking for you.
They're looking for the Blue Mantises of the world and they want to be ready when that opportunity comes. Because I'm thinking about the December acquisition of Collegio. There was a conversation with one of their president with one of their executives to discuss what did what did he wish he did sooner and he said I wish I went with a banker sooner that had any idea what an MSP was that he was very specific in saying you need people that understand what you are as a business and who you are.
Is there anything else that you would advise these MSP owners or leaders to do before being acquired to set themselves up to be acquired in the best way? I think that's a great question. I don't know that I have all the answers. I think having clarity about their offerings, the markets they serve, their pricing and go to market models, and I think the maturity of kind of their tech stack, those things would make partnerships, mergers, integrations, acquisitions a lot easier. um if those things are are kind of well in place and and well understood but like anything else you know it's a business that um you always try to manage against churn right um you work hard to get customers you want to do a good job and so I would advise those other MSPs to really take good care of your customers listen to their needs and requirements you know you like to see a nice smooth track record of growth up and to the right?
Not not very kind of lumpy u performance because customers left, you know, if they leave for reasons other than a a less than stellar experience, that's one thing. If it's related to their own business change or whatever, but um generally I would just say, you know, just focus on keeping your customers happy and meeting their needs. Absolutely. In a cost effective way. Terry, the last time we spoke, the word of the interview was very much intention.
You talked about your experience on the vendor side for so many years and how you had to stand out to solution providers among the vast amount of products out there that are worth selling and the competition in in every space when it comes to those vendors. Then on the solution provider side, you have to be really intentional about choosing your vendor partners. It's just a a constant evolution of a challenge for you. How have you applied that same intentional approach to the acquisitions that Blue Mantis has been making this year and very late last year up into this year?
And you know what criteria must be met for you to say like here is is where we're going to make these acquisitions. And not only that, but this is the right time for us to grow through acquisition. How are you making those very specific intentions and setting them? So I think anytime you entertain a potential acquisition, there has to be a good underlying business case for for why we're doing it, right? In some cases, it like you referenced Gliggio, that was a capabilities expansion.
We didn't have strong UC capabilities inside the walls of the company. So it made sense to do a capabilities acquisition because it was a market that was adjacent. it was something our customers were asking for and we felt um doing that would would enhance our ability to serve our own customers. In some cases uh we could look at a acquisition from a market expansion ge geographically um customer access there has to be a good premise for why it makes sense and then of course the deal has to has to be sound from a financial standpoint um as well.
But when you kind of marry up the the business premise that you're targeting, the real focus there and the intention of why we would want to do the acquisition, understanding kind of how it fits, what's the ramification, what's the degree of difficulty to make sure that it's successful, that kind of all gets wrapped together. Um, and when all those things look favorable, that's when we look to, you know, take the next steps to see if we, you know, can't find a a deal that's a that's a win-win for all parties.
No, very well put on that end, too. Uh, I'd love to talk more about the technology in the space that we're all, you know, touching, using, and that's running our businesses. So, what trends are you keeping a close eye on this year, Terry? what's really impacting the decisions that you're making for not just for Blue Mantis, but for your customers as well. You have a good memory, Katie, because I did use that word intentional uh a lot last time and I think we've certainly been executing from a partnership standpoint and and just an internal um kind of go to market focus.
That's been a key watch word. But I think the new one for this year, it's related, but it's really being focused on outcomes and the outcomes we can deliver for our customers. And so earlier this year at our kickoff events, we talked about five um critical focus areas within IT that we feel that we can most deliver the types of outcomes that our customers need and want. And so we've been operating um with a with a purpose and with intent in in those five areas.
And I'll just list them for you if if interested. It'll give you a context of where we're focused and and what what to expect moving forward. Zero trust is one that leverages our strong strengths in cyber and our growing um and increasing capabilities around networking. Hybrid cloud optimization. We have a robust cloud service provider business and a legacy data center business. And we all know the world is hybrid. So in order to properly serve your customers, you have to be really good at helping them navigate um workload placement and and and portability.
Uh business resilience has kind of come back around. Um I think you know whether it was the pandemic or uh some of the outages we saw with crowd strike or other things happening um it's no longer just a checkbox item. Customers need to know you know that they have a plan that you know they can't they need to be able to understand you know what type of system unavailability can they tolerate and they need to they need to test it. Um uh the fourth area and it's and it's certainly not fourth in priority.
It's it's top of mind in most every conversation is around AI in data enablement. Um that was the purpose of the acquisition of the the company that we acquired right before Cligio called Solutions Group. They're really experts in this space and it gave us great capabilities to serve our customers. And then the fifth and final one is around we call it um re-imagined uh workplace. Some of that's you know the reality of work postcoid uh where it is a hybrid work environment and you know whether it's um how customers optimize their environments to deal with that new reality how they think about the overall employee experience and collaboration. um we know we have some some really good outcomes to deliver.
So those are the I guess outcomes is kind of the word. It's it's not new. Um all good solution providers focus on delivering outcomes for customers, but we're trying to be much more precise in the the outcomes that matter that we're that we're really trying to be, I guess, intentional with intentional outcomes. Yeah, they mesh together. I like that. I I'm curious, Terry, something that I'm just thinking about based on what you said. We keep referring to where we are now as in a postco world.
When do you think we'll stop saying that? When do you think we'll just say this is how we work and we won't refer to postco? Or do you think we're always going to be in that before and after? Well, I I I hope we don't always have to, you know, think back to CO and in some ways it it seems like a long time ago that we were masking up and, you know, sanitizing groceries when they came into before they came into the house and some of the things we went through.
But, you know, from a from a business standpoint, I think it it it taught some valuable lessons. The closest analogy certainly very different, but you know with the talk of of tariffs and the impact on on some of the broader kind of political um uh issues right now that are going on. Um you know people will remember the impact that co had on supply chains and and what the experience was when they were disrupted given that it's a globally connected world.
I think people will remember the lessons that that time uh in industry taught us and I think that we'll be prepared to deal better with whatever comes our way. Hopefully it's not a pandemic, could be related to terrorists, could be, you know, other, you know, uh, incidents that that it could cause a disruption. I think I think it'll cause the most forward-looking companies to just really be constantly assessing the business that they're in, how they can, you know, the contingencies they have to continue to serve their customers despite, you know, any kind of uncertainty that may come their way.
I don't know if it'll always be referred to as postcoid, but I think it taught us really valuable lessons that we would all be remiss if we didn't we didn't learn from and change some of our behaviors accordingly. 100% 100%. I I think about the the reasoning that we had to really accelerate digital transformation during that time because we had no other choice. And I don't know where we would be now if we hadn't done any of that or gone through it.
I I wish obviously that it wasn't done in the way that where we we had to out of necessity and out of uncertainty about our our own health and safety. But yeah, I do I do just wonder about when we will get to that point as a society where we'll no longer say well since we're in a postcoid world because I I don't know. I think it could be very much similar to where we say, you know, everything has a before and after. Um you you did say two words that I need to to touch on. you you said the T- word tariffs and I I I think that we're shifting so much in that conversation right now.
Um I don't want to specifically talk about anything hard with tariffs, but you also mentioned uncertainty and those two things go hand in hand. They do. How are you staying calm and staying cool and collected and encouraging your customers to do the same in this time of uncertainty that we're seeing? What's the key to doing that? And is there anything that you're looking toward to say this is how I measure whether or not we need to make some sort of decision?
Well, the first action that we took as a company, whether it will prove to be right or wrong, is we wanted to immediately um connect and and start conversations with our customers that weren't related to trying to sell something or related to a current project, but just try to better understand what some of the um impacts of the uncertainty that was injected into the into the business uh realm would mean for their business. Um maybe it was related to tariffs, maybe it was just the market fluctuation and company valuations and and other things changing.
Um in order to you know properly serve our customers we it's it's incumbent upon us and anyone in this you know solution provider world or any even on the vendor side to just understand what are your customers thinking and and ultimately how can you help right so you know we we quickly rallied our sales team and made some suggestions on things that they could do do to help customers through the uncertainty, but in the meantime, just putting the conversation on the table and trying to dig into a dialogue so they understood uh and if there was something we could do to help, then we were certainly, you know, ready, willing, and prepared.
But I think I think we I most wanted to make sure they understood that, you know, we're we're really not interested in just being a supplier. um trying to show ourselves more as a partner as they deal with um you know challenging times and some some places are impacted more than others by the by the current market uncertainties and and again in the same theme of uncertainty I I have no idea what the next year I have no idea what the next six months is going to hold or the next quarter we're we're in this together we're all white knuckling it a bit uh with that in mind though if we continue down this path of uncertainty what do you think it's going to make an impact on on just the m um the mergers and acquisition actions of the channel.
Do you think we'll see more consolidation? Do you think speaking as I know that you probably have plans to do that yourself, but just speaking broadly knowing you've been in this space for for such a long time, what do you think this is going to do to the way that people kind of go about their growth and their mergers and acquisition? Do we do you think we'll see more of it? Do you think that'll stop? What do you think? I think we'll see more of it potentially if the financial markets, you know, um are, you know, maintain their u their strength because I think history's shown us companies that stay focused during times of uncertainty and don't allow themselves to be distracted ultimately emerge stronger.
And so I think, you know, at least the the tack that we're taking is to to try to stay focused on executing on our business and and and being as sound as we possibly can in all in all key disciplines. Um and if we and our uh private equity uh firm partner recognize still have the capability to execute um acquisitions and that makes sense and checks all the boxes that I I talked about previously, then I expect we're going to we're going to stay the course and and keep doing it.
Yeah, I think staying the course right now is the best option because we again we don't know. We just have to keep going with what's been working for everybody. Are there any other success stories uh that you'd like to talk to me about with Blue Mantis? Any any success stories with customers that stand out in your mind from the past year since we last spoke? I alluded to it earlier. Um our cloud business, helping customers um really control their cloud spend has been a very big accelerator.
Um which has been terrific. um that business is growing um healthy triple digits. Oh wow. Um and I and I and it's not just because we're, you know, good at cloud billing or or because we can help, you know, move workloads from onrem to the cloud, but it's really our ability to uh to really roll up our sleeves and help customers assess their cloud spend. And um you know we we advertise um being able to save customers 25 or 30% of their cloud spend.
And the good news is there's success story after success story where we've actually achieved that. So I would say as a category that's been a um that's been a really big bright um star. Um our other businesses have have held up well. We continue to attract new managed service customers. We continue to um add capabilities. We I I talked about uh data enablement and and analytics and AI. Um you see we're starting to already see the the the positive benefits and contributions from those acquisitions that are barely six months old.
Um already starting to u to help us, you know, better serve, you know, net new customers as well as as current customers. So those would be a couple a couple of examples without naming very specific um end user customers. You mentioned you talk about cloud spend and and I'm seeing that a lot right now as part of the conversation. Is there anything that you could see as a common thread that you can point to as far as why your customers are needing help in that department?
I and I should explain I should back up and explain my reasoning for asking that. We're constantly right now seeing people go back to their cloud spend in their businesses and saying did we really need all that or did we really want to put it there or did we actually want it to be on prem? What do we do? What's the right what's the right motion? What is it right now that's causing them to need help with their cloud spend and kind of get the reinss on that?
What is a common thread that you've seen them come to you with? So I think it's kind of a blessing and a curse. You know, the good news is it's it's easy to stand up a new service in the public cloud, but the bad news is it's not always wellcoordinated and controlled by it or even, you know, with some of the financial governance policies that that companies rely on. You know, sometimes our conversations, we're identifying areas of spend that the customer was not even that in tune with what was happening.
M um so it's an ability to kind of to give the big picture and then start to attack you know different areas you know and I think is also you know it's as much about services that they want to use more but in in some cases it's services that they're using less and not necessarily adjusting their their their spend profiles accordingly. So we we kind of help both ways. Should they come to a provider like you first before going down that road? Would that be a key piece of advice?
Well, we can certainly help them if if their motivation is cost. You know, there's a cost profile for standing up a service on prem. There's one for for doing it in the public cloud or, you know, one of several, you know, public clouds. So we can help them compare and contrast costs. Um but it's more than that because if you are moving workloads off-prem for companies that built their security posture you know with everything running through centralized IT that now is changed when you introduce cloud into the mix and so how do your security policies have to change how do your you know data protection and resilience policies have to change um so there's you know it's not as simple might as well just move this to the cloud.
Yeah, we can. That's easy in many cases, but there's other things that have to be looked at to to make sure you don't, you know, solve seemingly one problem and create three others. No, it's a good point. Yeah, you can definitely create more problems when you try to hyperfocus on one. So, uh, great points there, Terry. And as we as we wrap up this conversation, and I appreciate so much that you've given me so much time today, Terry, what can we expect from Blue Mantis as we go deeper into 2025?
Hopefully, you'll continue to hear that we're doing a great job for our customers. I fully expect you'll see us uh growing by acquisition. So stay tuned. Um maybe we'll get back together sooner than a year. Um and um and just continuing to to execute on our business. We'll uh we'll continue to increase the offerings we have through our uh managed services business. So that kind of platform approach. We'll be making a series of announcements. We'll continue to attract talent.
You'll you'll start to see some announcements about new executives um and and senior leaders joining the firm. So all things that you'd expect from a from a growing company that's that's delivering on its on its promise to customers. Well, I'm very much on a cliffhanger now and very excited to talk to you in fewer than 12 months. That will be wonderful. That's the key. That's the key. Do you folks make acquisitions now just so that you can come talk to me sooner?
I would love that. Let's smoke. If that works, Katie, I'm I'm all in. Let's do it. Let's do it. Terry, where can we go to learn more about Blue Mantis and your services? Bluemantis.com is always uh always probably a great starting point. Fabulous. Terry, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it, Katie. really nice talking to you again. Thanks for having me. Anytime. Anytime between now and the next time we talk in 12 months, hopefully sooner.
Thanks so much to Terry for joining me and thank you for watching or listening. You can check out every episode of Channel Insider Partner POV on channelinsider.com or watch us on YouTube at youtube.com/ channelinsider_news and trends. You can also listen to us as a podcast wherever you get your podcasts from. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and follow wherever possible to never miss an episode. Come connect with Channel Insider and me on X and LinkedIn. Once again, I'm your host, Katie Paboso, and I'll see you next time.
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