Hey channel insiders, welcome back to channel insider partner POV. I'm your host Katie Bavoso. My guest today is Belinda Yaks, executive director at Bounce Point, a new nonprofit focused on keeping women in tech. Belinda spent the last three years as the partner advocate at AA, a managed service provider. She saw firsthand the lack of women compared to men in the channel and greater IT space. Now she's dedicating her career to learning why women are leaving tech and how she can help enable them to stay in or come back to the industry.
Belinda, welcome. Thank you. I am so glad uh to be here and thank you so much for taking an interest and and wanting to talk to me. Oh, how could I not? I mean, everything that you're doing is something that's right up my alley as far as what I care about. But first, I have to also point out the art behind you is is by you. Is that correct? Uh, yes. It's gorgeous. Oh my goodness. Is that My home office is also my art studio. All of our home offices double as something else.
I'm always trying to make my home office my escape space, my like quiet space, a guest bedroom at the same time. Uh, so it's I can never have just one room be one function. That feels like a waste of time. But an art studio is so cool. You are a trained artist. I was looking at some of the other pieces that you've done uh that are behind you kind of in this space right now. How long have you been doing that? You know what? Um, I have been painting for about probably 24 years now, 25 years.
Uh, I used to work as an artist, you know, commission artwork and wild murals and refinishing pieces for for people. Um, that was way before the recession and people stopped spending money on on fun stuff. Yeah, I hope it comes back. I hope it comes back. I think it will. Well, I I appreciate your time today and I'm so excited to get to know you. And the biggest thing we're talking about today is a new venture for you, a new nonprofit called Bounce Point.
You started it at the beginning of this year in January 2025. It's still coming off the ground, but I think let's start about uh start talking with what exactly it is before we get into your your backstory of how it came to be. Talk to me about what Bounce Point is and what you're looking to to turn it into throughout the rest of 2025. Bounce Point is an initiative. Before this year, I was working at an MSP uh a here in Chore, Michigan. And um there's quite a few women working at this company and also I've been going to a lot of conferences nationwide and and it's there's a lot of men in technology and there's never a line to the ladies room you know which is one of the benefits but I started looking into like where are all the ladies because I am loving uh the technology space even though I'm not a tech person myself you know all everybody is warm and welcoming that the names of everything is just it's just fun.
There's this sense of humor and everybody's happy to see you. Maybe because there's not a lot of ladies. So, you walk into a room and everybody is just treating me well and open arms and I just think that there should be more women in tech. uh started digging into it and there's a lot of uh wonderful nonprofits helping girls get into technology, encouraging girls to go after those tech degrees. And even with all this um effort, the number of girls choosing to study tech is just slowly declining anyway.
So less than 25% of tech degrees go to women. Um, so we created Bounce Point to kind of fix the other end of what we think may be part of the issue and it's the ladies that are already in tech, right? Um, because apparently they are leaving at a higher 50% higher rate than their male counterparts. You have those young girls seeing their their parents, their their peers, their aunts, women in their lives leaving the tech field for some reason, right?
And they're choosing not to go into tech themselves because maybe it's not a great place for women to be. So, we're going to try to fix it on the top so that those wonderful nonprofits can then continue to get the girls in and then we'll make sure that they stay. I think that's so important to point out. You're right. I've heard of many many spaces in which and many nonprofits in which they're really encouraging girls and and young women to study and start to get an interest in STEM, start to get an interest in technology, start to focus on technology- based careers and get a degree in it.
But, you know, our lives don't stop at 22. We education doesn't stop at 22. We still need support uh and we need support to continue throughout our careers. So I think the idea of helping to keep women in tech is so important because I mean for somebody speaking from personal experience your life continues in many different chapters. Uh you you may move to a different place in the country like I did. You might end up uh starting a family which is in itself an entirely new chapter in so many women's lives that takes up it's it's more it's about more than just you at that point.
Um, and it's important to consider what's driving women out of the industry. Um, you you mentioned this already, but you had previously worked in the channel at Acom for an MSP that is based in Michigan. Can you talk to me a little bit more about some of the experiences that you kind of drew in from the stories that of of women that they had in that space in the channel industry? Um, I'm curious to know what you've heard out there from women as far as maybe why they left for a period of time, why they were planning to leave, or just what the stresses are of working in such a male-dominated industry.
Yeah. So, um, so Arcom as an example, they are, uh, one of our major, uh, beneficiaries. Like they're helping us, um, a lot actually as we're getting off the ground. they have a very high rate of percentage of women working in their company. You know, they're always excited to see um a resume or a job applicant come in and and if it's a lady, right, they're very excited because there's not a lot of women applying for these jobs. Um since only 25% of the degrees are going to ladies in the first place.
And then the the men that are owning other MSPs that I have met over the years at these channel events um have been saying the same thing. you know, there's they don't know where to find these ladies to to hire them and they're very excited when someone does uh apply for a job uh at one of their companies. And um because they do want a large diverse group of people working in their companies and I mean we've been seeing I don't know much about actually how tech works myself.
I'm more of the that person that uh works with everybody and makes the connections. All of us who are now helping to create this new AI and next generation and technology, I think that will be a better working, better functioning um resource if both men and women are um in the process of coding and creating it, right? It's going to be a more intelligent machine, so to speak. Although that's just kind of my personal opinion. Um maybe there's someone watching this that can uh put some comments in on how that would work.
It's a field where I feel that the women entering into tech, they'll have not only job security, but they're going to be welcome. These companies are looking for women to to come and work for them. 100%. I it reminds me I was at an event about a year ago now and I remember um a business owner uh managed service provider business owner that I felt very comfortable with asked me you know I'm I'm constantly trying to recruit more women and I'm finding it difficult. can you look at my my postings like my job postings and and tell me what can I adjust in here with the wording and just that sort of level of care of just how do I speak better to that side of of the community?
How do I speak better to women in a way that makes them feel more welcomed into the space? What can I do to adjust this? And I think that there's so many women have so many jobs. So many jobs they don't get paid for as you know being a a wife and a mother come with their own responsibilities. Uh being a partner in general. Uh and I think that there's language that often we see inside of these job postings that is exhausting because you can't go into it thinking that that's going to be your entire life.
You're you're demanded in so many other areas. So, I was letting him know there there's things that we all see in those postings that are like in a deadline driven environment or a high energy environment or a and it's very overstimulating. So, I said consider maybe bucking that trend. Don't don't do what everybody else is doing when it comes to writing these postings that make it sound like it's make or break. It's all or nothing because that is exhausting for a lot of women, especially as we get further into our lives and deeper into our careers. we have so many other responsibilities and it doesn't make us any less being able to contribute to a company.
It just means that we we we're being choosier because we have to be because we have to balance it all. So I I think about those experiences of just the people that are trying to turn around the system and say, well, what are we doing what are we doing wrong or what are we doing that's just been so stereotyped and we don't realize it now? How can we change our language and change our approach? um for you, what what have you suggested as far as what can be changed to to create a more welcoming space for women not just to come into it but to stay?
I mean, do you have any suggestions around how we can each make that approach? Well, there you are you're correct and I don't want to necessarily target it as a bias. It's also um a reality, right? women women do uh take leave of absences at a higher rate than men do afford when starting a family right I mean the men that are in tech are the father of the children that these women are having right so but it's often the ladies that are taking some time off actually five to eight times more likely than than men to take a leave of absence to be a care caregiver or um you know when they're starting a family but also when these companies are looking at those resumes that are coming in.
Oftent times uh I would say there are studies that are saying that 50% of the time um if there is more than a six-month gap in the job history, they will just put that resume aside. They won't even consider them. And um so that's going to directly impact women who have started families, right? because a lot of times you might be home more than six months. Um but we are also one thing that that we are focusing on is that when women are choosing what jobs to what careers to go after, maybe technology isn't high up there because technology is changing so quickly and they know that at some point they may want to start a family.
And what are you going to do when you're home for a little while with young children and now you want to go back into your career, but tech changed and you can't get back in there, right? You're left behind. So, we're creating a training platform so while these ladies uh are home caring for a family member or for a child, they can stay up to date and maybe by the time they go back into the workforce, they now even have a leg up and an advantage to everybody that's there because they have been trained and gotten those certifications and of the of all the new exciting things that are coming out.
Um, so the training platform is something we're really proud of. We've been working on it and it's going to be one of our um, one of our great resources. I think that's so amazing. And I was going to approach that that subject because I remember first meeting you. You talked about this training program because tech moves so fast. Like you said, just look at how many iterations of AI we've we've discussed about as an industry in just the last year.
It went from just starting out as artificial intelligence to then you have aentic AI and you have generative AI and you have all of these different versions of it. It's not just one subject anymore. When you speak about artificial intelligence, it's so many different layers of that conversation and it's a lot to keep up with. It is so much to keep up with especially as you said if you're working in a space that is tech adjacent but not necessarily technical.
So many of the people involved in this industry and the channel work in sales or they work in marketing or they work in media and they they need to keep up in a way that maybe they're not necessarily that's not their bread and butter. Uh they don't always know how to do the virtualization but they can express it and explain it and give an example of it. Um and you need those people just as much. If you can actually build on that for me. you you spoke about uh how not everybody in this space is technical is and I'm for those listening on the podcast big air quotes big yeah like me too it it's something that we can talk about and talk around and we understand the needs and we understand the space but to do the actual thing to do the programming to do the coding to do the building um even down to the welding it's not something that we we do so could you speak on that a little bit more about how we need to encourage women to come into the space uh or stay in the base really and that they don't need to necessarily be a tech expert to do that.
Uh how important is it that we kind of what messaging needs to be done to kind of change that narrative? Yeah, tech is is a really wonderful place for women to be in as I mentioned and you know what you can have an administrative uh title. Uh you can be uh head of marketing, you can be in sales um you know HR uh manager, you do not have to have a tech degree to work in a tech company. Um so the the tech um umbrella it's a really big one, right? And nowadays, who doesn't have a tech person in their company?
Well, even the companies that are not focused on tech, they still need to learn a certain amount of technology to utilize it. So, you know, if you're going after a job in marketing, you know, why not try to apply to that tech company? It would be a fun uh fun space. I promise that it would be um an enjoyable experience. And the more women we get in there that the better for everybody. And honestly, uh, the companies that are hiring both men and women, uh, financially, they they have a higher profit margin.
You know, I'm curious to know for you, you were working in the channel, you were working at Alcom, things were things were going great for you. This is definitely what I would call a risk. I think that taking a risk to create a nonprofit like this is scary for you. Why was it so important to kind of get over that initial fear that I'm sure you had and say, "This is something I'm passionate about and I want to go after it." Why? What drove you to really say this is the time and I'm doing it right now?
Well, it seemed to be honestly a great time um to do it and everybody I was talking to a lot of um uh business owners of tech companies for the last year and everybody thought this sounded like a great idea and it's very timely. There is a lot of interest uh these companies they are they are quering this is an issue that no one has really figured out how to fix. uh they want to stop that the churn having the churn like people leaving your company and you have to rehire retrain it is one of the highest um expenses that a company have so closing that door would be so valuable for them uh so I thought if I could turn it into a nonprofit then I could help the ladies out there and you help the women now you're helping families and children and at the same time the company will be so happy because not only do they feel that they are helping, but they're actually financially benefiting from it because they're going to um retain their their employees, you know, and they're going to figure out what can we do to keep them and what can we do to entice them to apply for job at our company because everybody is looking and there's not enough people to fill all those chairs. and um and a nonprofit personally just as a as a personal note like it would be a fun thing to try my hand at.
I've never done a nonprofit before or worked at them. So there's a lot to learn and a lot to do and in in that case how can how can we support you? How can those who are listening and watching this interview right now, how can they support Bounce Point to to really succeed and support you in growing the company into this vision that you have, growing this nonprofit into this vision that you have? I should be more specific. So, of course, we're building out on our our training platform.
Uh we're also building out a survey that we we would um send companies if they want to participate to see what the men and the women in their companies value. Um and then we'll give them a a kind of gradient. If they hit a certain benchmark uh of um satisfaction points, they can be uh branded as a women um company that women love to work at, right? Uh so we need to get the word out that we exist. Um of course and then we're looking for partners. We would like tech companies to partner up with us, you know, to so we can bring these services to the women that are working in their companies to the ladies that chose to leave the tech space uh so we can bring them back.
Um so obviously we need uh funding. Um so any kind of partner that we can get someone who might be interested in providing these services and finding solutions at their companies you know uh reach out to me. I'd be happy to talk to you and uh and also I'm looking for feedback from women in tech and women who chose to leave tech. I want to know why they chose to leave. Why didn't it have worked out? If you made a lateral move from one tech company to another.
I would like to know what is it that you're looking for. Um, is it better now after you made that switch to another company? Um, what is it that you liked or did not like at the last one? And what can we do to help you as a woman out there wanting to work in tech, having that job? Are you happy there? We want to keep you. Uh, so help us help us figure out what to do. It's really what we're our main goal is, right? There's been an overarching theme throughout this entire interview where you've spoken about women who have left tech and are considering, you know, just because you've left it and haven't necessarily stopped working.
Leaving an industry is still you making a decision to leave it because it wasn't working for your life, it wasn't working out for you. For those who still would say, uh, the women who would say, "I enjoyed tech. It just wasn't the experience I had led me to believe it wasn't friendly or being able to be cohesive with my life because of everything else they have going on, but they would like to get back into it. I mean, just speaking candidly, what would you say to those women who are saying hearing you say, "I I've got the support.
There's going to be training. There's somebody out there and an organization out there who seems to understand my needs, but I'm scared to make that jump back in again." and maybe they're not a very technical person or they've been out of it for so many years that you know they they still need to find out about all the AI stuff that we're talking about in this industry now. What would you say to them about getting back into tech and and the accessibility that they should know that is out there for them?
Well, with funding, we can provide them access to our online AI uh training platform, right? So they can uh upskill, they can relearn those things that maybe they haven't used for a while while they have been in another career. Um, but taking the time, effort, uh, the money they've spent obtaining these degrees or even if you're not in a tech technical position, but you've worked at a long time at a tech company um, in a non-technical position, like that's that's a lot of your life and your, you know, efforts in there and we want to maintain that and, uh, build on it.
Like you should be able to move up in your career. So reaching out to us, talking to us. I'm I'm really interested in hearing what their experiences have been in order for us to kind of tailor uh our product so we can help them and others that have the same worries that they do. And these tech companies, they actually want things to be better. They want to hire the ladies. They want to keep them. They want to do it. and we want to figure out why it's not working at some of these places, right?
And they're willing to learn and adjust. Belinda, I think right now here in the US, uh, which is where we're recording today and where my podcast is based, but right now here in the US, we are seeing kind of a bit of a politic politization, I would say, of diversity in the workplace overall, not just in tech, but across the the environment. And I don't want to get too deep into that, but I would say that there are those out there listening right now who would say, well, tech and it are genderless.
It's not an industry about gender. It doesn't matter. But what do you believe or why do you believe women must have a presence in technology and the IT space? Why is it so important that women be here? Well, it's one of the new frontiers, right, with technology and women are great at these things as well. And I agree it's it's been a bit politicized lately and u but this is we're focusing on skill base, right? We're not saying that any company should hire or retain someone who's not good at their job or who's not a good fit.
I mean, there are people that obviously maybe you shouldn't hire or transition out or move into another space in your business where they may be a better fit with their skill set. Um, I was talking to a business owner last year and he was worried that what I was saying was that you should hire someone because they're a woman. And that's not at all what what we're about, right? We are we're all about talent and skills and training and getting these companies to you know to become successful with these team members and uh of course women should be on board.
Uh this is a really exciting time in in history really with this technology. I mean when I was little I didn't have the internet or I'm kind of dating myself. Um, I didn't have a cell phone when I was little and now you're carrying a computer in your pocket, right? It's a brand new world. And I don't think that women should just continue in in um caregiver jobs. We should also be in the tech side of things and we should be leaders and entrepreneurs and and we are a lot of women are leaving tech to start their own companies actually and some of them are in tech.
They start their own tech companies. Um, but this is an exciting time in our history and we should all be in it together. It's funny that you you say you mentioned that you were doing you were working. You were you were out there living your life before the internet. So was I. I think as millennials it's important to point out like we remember a time but even think about that. Think about how quickly just in the last 30 or so years that life has changed because of technology, because of the the widespread ubiquity of the internet, the access to the technology, the access to the worldwide web, the dotcom boom, all of that.
Think about how that's happened and when that's happened. It has happened in the last few decades. and women's roles have remained largely unchanged in their personal lives and in society. So when you think about how quickly tech has forged ahead of the societal roles that we all play and that we have to recognize that we do play, there needs to be an adjustment. There needs to be an understanding of how we can encourage women to stay in those positions and still be what they need to be to their families, to their aging parents, to their lives, to the people in their lives that they care about.
And I just think it's so important to recognize that technology surging ahead means that we have to make room for everybody to be involved in it and to be able to to give their own touch to it because it is important because we all use technology and it's so important that we recognize your users should also make up the people who are making decisions about that technology. I think going back to what you said at our um at the start of our conversation um that women are not applying to some jobs because maybe the job description seems very intense right um and the same there's a lot of men in technology they have created things they started companies and you know what men have really figured out how to do it uh I think that we should draw some inspiration instead of you know recreating the wheel you men are very good at this and and let's draw inspiration from them and start doing what they're doing.
You know, apply for that job that has a really intense job description or you feel that you're underqualified for because a man would apply for it. You know, you don't always have to like stay at your level. You can reach, you can jump and you can grasp. uh and men have cho showed us that um that that tactic works and they're happy and successful and I feel that sometimes women hold ourselves back a little bit. Uh and sometimes we hold each other back as well.
Uh I mean some of my best cheerleaders throughout my careers have been men, you know. Um so let's let's just look at them for some guidance. And I know that there are a lot of men out there that would love to, you know, give advice or mentor or and a lot of women too. I know some wonderful women who own tech companies uh that are extremely successful and very well respected. Speaking of that, by the way, the women who are in leadership roles right now, what should they be doing in your opinion to encourage the next person in line, the next woman in line in this case?
And again, assuming that woman has all the talent and the ability in the world, what can they do to encourage those next women in line and and help them be able to reach those positions to fill more of those positions? Um, and I'll just say it's about a 32% the global average of women in technology leadership roles is 32%. And that is below the 33 and a half% global average for every other industry combined. So it's interesting to see that it is low and it's lower than the global average.
It is. But now we're still talking about technology, right? And women are choosing only 25% of the techies go to women because they choose not to enter that field, right? So, I'm um no expert expert in the matter, but I would assume that that's going to now affect the numbers at the top because there's not a lot of women that choose to go into tech. And that's what we need to change, right? And when they do go in there, they leave at a 50% higher rate than men.
So, by the time they get to that point where they get promoted and made partners and uh or maybe even start their own tech companies because now they know how it all works. um there's just not a lot of women left, right? So, I'm assuming that that will also affect the numbers. So, the women that are in those amazing leadership positions really like talk to the young girls in your life and explain to them what a wonderful place this is to work. You know, encourage more young ladies to get those tech degrees. let's bump it up from 25% to maybe 30% and then we'll raise it from there, right?
And when they get there, um stay stick with it. It may be tough. Maybe you can make a lateral move to another company that will help you more that will have more flexibility and benefits that will suit you as you start a um a family or that's more friendly towards you. Um because these company I love these companies they want the ladies to work there. Um so stick with it and and encourage the younger generation to follow in your footsteps. Take on some young people under your wing and and train them and teach them.
I love that. I agree. I think that's so important just to talk to each other and to to see how they can help. You yourself saying you want to gather data and ask questions. Ask why. What was the experience you had? Why is it different from this person's experience? I think that's so important as far as a jumping off point to figure out first what is the why? What is the catalyst for all of this? Um, I have a fun question for you that I just thought about considering we were talking about events.
You know, I I I love there there are wonderful events out there dedicated just for women in tech, and I do think that's fantastic, but we also have to recognize there the events that we go to every year are co-ed events. There's there's people of all genders there, and it's important to recognize we we're networking with each other all the time. With that in mind, are there any uh is there anything you'd like to see at these events that encourage more women to go to those networking the fun stuff, not the boardrooms, not any of that, but the fun stuff that you would see afterwards for those networking parties.
Is there anything that you'd like to see that would encourage more women to go? Uh maybe a theme or or something related to food. I don't know. Like ruminate on that for me. Is there anything you'd like to see? That is such a fun question because I end up talking to women and the men at these events about this all the time because every time I go to any kind of channel event, it's like where are the ladies? This is such a good time. Everyone here is so happy and friendly and and you start going to the same events every year.
It's like a class reunion every time. People are just so glad to see each other. Um, honestly, I think that the the event coordinators are doing a great job. I just have no idea why the women are not going to them. And I would really like to know uh because I've gone to um a few events, tech events that are national where there's only women, right? So, there'll be a thousand women in technology at this one event. No men, just women. long lines to the bathroom.
And I'm like, why are you not at all those other events? This is wonderful. Like, you could you could do this every month. There's an event happening all the time. Um, you don't have to just go to the women only events. And again, I I think we need to look at the men like they figured it out. Let's draw some inspiration from them and and go attend all those other events. They are fun. And if you haven't been there before, you should try it and you'll be welcomed by everybody.
I've been to a few where there have been certain things that we've gotten to do that I feel is really encouraging for everyone to feel comfortable in. Um, sometimes it's more of an intimate space where there is encouragement where women go and they have access to the CEOs and the sea level leaders in a more intimate setting. Um, I think that that can be really encouraging. And there's also obviously co-ed ones where I I think that if you kind of, and this is where, you know, we start to get into a different conversation, but I think ones that don't involve alcohol are also an important uh recognition that we need to make where there are some of those events where maybe have rooms and and and spaces where that's not involved.
Um, there have been more puppies at on the floor of some of these events. Oh, okay. Yeah, I have to say I do highly encourage those puppies to the animal shelters. Bring them in. I posted so many LinkedIn pictures of me holding the puppies and food for thought for the event planners out there. You're doing a great job. But couple ideas that I just figured we'd we'd talk about a little bit. I love that. Yeah, I'm hoping that there's I'm going to another one soon and if there's not puppies, I'm going to be disappointed.
So, I just want to throw that out there. There better be one now. every time I go. I was recently at a at a conference and I I revisited that booth many times. So, Belinda, thinking about what's next for you uh in 2025 and beyond with Bounce Point, where can we go to learn more about Bounce Point? What should we be watching for to both connect with you and to see how we can continue to get involved with Bounce Point as we continue into the year? So we are online at balancepoint.org.
Uh we're also on LinkedIn at balancepoint on LinkedIn. You can reach out to me personally also on LinkedIn reaching out to me what I would love to hear from women about their experiences. I want to get their input and feedback and ideas. Let's fix this. I I really think it is fixable. Let's increase the number of women in technology. I agree as a woman, so I might sound biased, but I I think it's important to do. Thank you so much for taking the time to spend with me today and talk to me about Balance Point and your experience, and I'm so excited to follow you through the rest of the year and beyond.
Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. Come back anytime. For sure. We'll talk more about puppies. Yes, anytime. Thanks so much to Belinda for joining me today and thank you for watching or listening. You can check out every episode of Channel Insider Partner POV on channelinsider.com or watch us on YouTube at youtube.com/ channelinssider_news and trends. You can also listen to us as a podcast wherever you get your podcast from. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and follow wherever possible so you never miss an episode.
You can connect with Channel Insider on LinkedIn and X at Channel Insider or with me at Katie Baboso. Once again, I'm your host Katie Bavoso and I'll see you next time.
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